Discovery: Star Trek Returns to Television???

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Re: Discovery: Star Trek Returns to Television???

Post by Scrattch » 11/09/17

Do you honestly believe that they give a Tribble's ass about canon?

(Wait... does a Tribble even have an ass?)

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Re: Discovery: Star Trek Returns to Television???

Post by Tregarde » 11/10/17

Scrattch wrote:
11/09/17
Now what I find interesting is the idea floating around that STD is actually occurring in the Mirror Universe. That would explain a few things.
No, we're not watching the Mirror Universe, but the producers have said the Discovery will go there. In fact, there is reason to suspect that they may be stuck in the Mirror Universe for a while.

Anyway, a couple days away from the mid-season finale. I figure that will either make or break Discovery, at least for me. I just wish the setup wasn't some super powerful aliens trying to bring peace between the Feds and Klingons... they kinda already did that one in the original series.

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Re: Discovery: Star Trek Returns to Television???

Post by Slipps » 11/10/17

Could you see a bunch of Klingons on the surface all hyped up on Pahrvu dust?

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Re: Discovery: Star Trek Returns to Television???

Post by Scrattch » 11/10/17

Slipps, you just made my head go 'spoldey. Not fair. But hilarious.

@Tregarde: Yeah, I had that same thought watching. It was "Wait... this is supposed to be the Organians, guys... and in the future..." But the show is getting better as it finds its feet. Dunno. Honestly the Klingons aren't enough to carry it for me at this point. Less of that, more of the strange new worlds for me.

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Re: Discovery: Star Trek Returns to Television???

Post by Psia » 11/13/17

When I'm honest, I know Gene Roddenberry would have loved bare breasted females where he could work them into his previous productions. It's no secret whatsoever how much Gene adored the female gender. This is the man who wanted Counselor Troi to have more than one pair of breasts for the syndicated The Next Generation. It only didn't happen due to having been proven as too impractical - and possibly too silly - to interpret at the time.

I also distinctly recall Roddenberry's novelization of the The Motion Picture screenplay. He spent quite a deal of time describing Kirk's response to the supple bare breasts of the Ilia probe when he saw her in the shower.

So today, I find myself not as nearly surprised as others when I read the latest scandal/spoiler from their mid-season finale.

Boobies. Klingon bare breasts appeared in my social media feed. And this makes them canon. In case anyone wondered.

Someone had screen captured and censored a Klingon/Human sex scene. With the womans nipples covered. Say what I will about the quality of the series overall. Which is that it could be better. I'm just not sure the cursing and nudity is necessarily as horrible as some might suggest. This is something which simply hasn't had the virtue of being done before for a Trek production. In that regard, Discovery is certainly breaking new ground. Even if everyone else has already been there before.
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Re: Discovery: Star Trek Returns to Television???

Post by Scrattch » 11/13/17

The scene in question is from the mid season cliffhanger(ish) and, yeah... they showed what the smart viewers among us had already figured out.

Torture wasn't the only thing going on between our new head of security and scar-faced Klingon interrogator woman.

Frankly, I was far more worried about Stammets(sp?).

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Re: Discovery: Star Trek Returns to Television???

Post by Tregarde » 11/13/17

The mid-season ender was... interesting. Overall, not a bad episode. It does continue the trend of the show gradually getting better, to be honest, and gives me hope that the second half of the season will be worth watching.

Wish they had done something with the Pahrvans though. After all that setup last episode, they are nothing more than a name drop a couple times this episode.

BUT... in some ways it's still not Star Trek. I still have trouble buying that Starfleet would have given Lorca a command after he lost his previous ship, and this episode only reinforces why he's such a dick. I also have trouble buying that Lorca would hand over Chief of Security position to a man who was a prisoner for several months, and this episode reinforces why that was a bad idea. But, on the plus side, they acknowledge the effects of PTSD finally.

And yes, there's Kingon boobies. But the way they framed it, it fits the scene, so I'm not complaining.

Looking forward to seeing if they are in the Mirror Universe (which I'd bet they are), and how they are going to get home. And Stamets is still the best.

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Re: Discovery: Star Trek Returns to Television???

Post by Tregarde » 11/20/17

Star Trek: Discovery producer and Sonequa Martin-Green tease the big questions for season 2
http://metro.co.uk/2017/11/14/star-trek ... 2-7076988/

Of particular note:
Speaking to press including Metro.co.uk, Aaron said: ‘We have ten years until the original series comes into play. It is a challenge creatively because we have lots of choices, in terms of how do we reconcile this [Spore] drive? This surrogate daughter of Sarek? How do we reconcile these things the closer we get to the original series?

‘That’s going to be a big discussion that we have in season two. What’s so fun about the character of Michael, just because she hasn’t been spoken about, doesn’t mean she didn’t exist. A lot of the writers on our show are deeply involved in Star Trek, their knowledge is some of the finest around, they really do help us find areas where we can steer around things.
Let's face it, two if the biggest issues with Discovery is that it is a prequel, which leads to questions of why some of this stuff isn't around in the later shows. I don't mean little things like holographic displays, that's just reflecting how tech in real life has advanced, but big things like the Spore Drive. Also tieing Michael to Sarek... the whole 'just because you didn't hear it before doesn't mean it wasn't there' is bullshit. They could easily have made her adopted by another Vulcan, and it would not have diminished anything.

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Re: Discovery: Star Trek Returns to Television???

Post by Scrattch » 11/20/17

Hence my observation about canon and the asses of Tribbles.

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Re: Discovery: Star Trek Returns to Television???

Post by Slipps » 11/21/17

She might have died before Spock set out, which would explain why she is never talked about.

Perhaps her involvement in Starfleet is why he chose to go there. Considering that would have been an emotional reaction, he might never have wanted to talk about it.

Or, would you have wanted to admit that your 'sister' started that whole bloody war?

He has grandparents, how often were they discussed? Or Aunts, Uncles, Cousins?

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Re: Discovery: Star Trek Returns to Television???

Post by Scrattch » 11/21/17

Most of what we know of Spock's family life was given to us via ST:TAS and later novels... other than what TNG gave us later. Personally, I don't count Abram's stuff as canon.

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Re: Discovery: Star Trek Returns to Television???

Post by Psia » 11/21/17

Here is an updated bit of my chronology work. Some of this is taken directly from the Memory Alpha site. Some from the official chronology book that Memory Alpha missed.

2249
  • Michael Burnham graduates from the Vulcan Science Academy and begins her seven-year service under Captain Philippa Georgiou. (DIS: "The Vulcan Hello", "Battle at the Binary Stars", "The Butcher's Knife Cares Not for the Lamb's Cry", "Magic to Make the Sanest Man Go Mad")
2250
  • Robert April leaves the USS Enterprise as its commander for an appointment as Federation ambassador-at-large. (TAS: "The Counter-Clock Incident")

    James Kirk is introduced to Gary Mitchell. Years later, they became friends when cadet Mitchell attended Lieutenant Kirk's philosophy class at Starfleet Academy. (TOS: "Where No Man Has Gone Before")

    Spock enters Starfleet Academy, instead of enrolling at the Vulcan Science Academy, against Sarek's wishes. (TOS: "Journey to Babel", "The Enterprise Incident")

    Sarek becomes estranged from his son for the next eighteen years. (TOS: "Journey to Babel")
2254
  • USS Enterprise
    Spock is assigned to the USS Enterprise as science officer. (TOS: "The Menagerie, Part I")

    The Enterprise under the command of Christopher Pike, visits Rigel VII. While commanding the landing party, Pike enters an abandoned fortress and fights a Rigelian Kalar warrior. The landing party's ambush leads to seven injuries and three deaths, including Pike's yeoman. (TOS: "The Cage")

    The Enterprise, en route to Vega colony to hospitalize the Rigel VII victims, is diverted by an eighteen-year old distress call from the SS Columbia, crashed on Talos IV. (TOS: "The Cage")
2255
  • Ensign James T. Kirk is promoted to lieutenant. (TOS: "The Corbomite Maneuver")
2256
  • The USS Shenzhou visits the Crepusculan homeworld saves them from a drought. (DIS: "The Vulcan Hello")

    The Shenzhou is called to a binary star system to investigate damage done to an interstellar relay. (DIS: "The Vulcan Hello", "Battle at the Binary Stars")

    The Battle of the Binary Stars occurs; Captain Philippa Georgiou and T'Kuvma are killed. (DIS: "The Vulcan Hello", "Battle at the Binary Stars")

    Michael Burnham is found guilty of mutiny and is stripped of her rank and is sentenced to life imprisonment. (DIS: "The Vulcan Hello", "Battle at the Binary Stars")
2257
  • Lieutenant James Kirk completes his five-year officer training program at the Starfleet Academy. He is assigned to the phaser station aboard the USS Farragut. (TOS: "Obsession")

    Two hundred crewmembers of the Farragut are killed at Tycho IV by a dikironium cloud creature. The Farragut first officer commends Lieutenant Kirk for his actions at Tycho IV. (TOS: "Obsession")

    The Shakespearean troupe Karidian Company of Players, sponsored by the Galactic Cultural Exchange Project, begins its tour of official installations. (TOS: "The Conscience of the King")

    Christopher Pike begins his second five-year mission aboard the USS Enterprise.
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Re: Discovery: Star Trek Returns to Television???

Post by Psia » 11/21/17

So when Burnham mentions the Enterprise, it's the Enterprise still under its second Captain, Christopher Pike. And Spock is already out there, too.
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Re: Discovery: Star Trek Returns to Television???

Post by Psia » 12/04/17

The writer makes some excellent points with regard to fandom behavior. Though I can easily recall that misogyny, racism and homophobia existed within our fandom before Discovery was conceived. Clearly, the fandom has reached its tipping point on these concerns.

http://www.syfy.com/syfywire/the-proble ... rek-fandom
THE PROBLEM OF GATEKEEPING IN STAR TREK FANDOM

There’s something happening with Star Trek: Discovery. The show is clearly popular; it scored an early renewal for a second season, and social media is abuzz with discussion and speculation every Monday after an episode airs. If you follow me at all on Twitter (or read my weekly recaps), you already know that I’m a huge fan of the show, which boasts incredible storytelling and intriguing characters.

But this isn’t a discussion of the merits of Discovery. Some, like me, love it. Others don’t. Still others are angry about the delivery method. Whatever your feelings on the show are, they’re your business. No show is perfect, and no show is for everyone, and that’s okay.

That being said, there’s been a disturbing trend among the ranks of Star Trek fandom that has turned its back on the show. It’s not enough that they don’t like it; they’ve decreed that anyone who enjoys the show isn’t a real Star Trek fan. And they’ll pop up in Facebook comments, in Twitter mentions, everywhere they can to make sure you know it.

I’ve been called a lot of things because of my vocal support for Star Trek: Discovery, from a fake Star Trek fan to a shill for CBS. The words don’t bother me. The mindset behind them, the gatekeeping of what a “real” fan is, does. The fact is that some people, mainly men, are trying to tell those of us who are enjoying the show that we aren’t “real fans” of Star Trek. And it just so happens that the bulk of these fans are women and people of color.

This type of gatekeeping isn’t limited to Star Trek fandom; these toxic elements exist in pretty much every geek space. But one of Star Trek’s main values is diversity and embracing difference; this type of exclusion is antithetical to what the show is about. And it doesn’t help that it’s arguably the first in the franchise to cater specifically to a more diverse audience.

While Star Trek has often paid lip service to being inclusive, it hasn’t always measured up in practice — see, for example, the treatment of female characters in Star Trek: The Next Generation. Discovery, on the other hand, has a black female lead, who’s in a relationship with a South Asian man. The long-term pairing on the ship is a mixed-race gay couple. This show is specifically centering and reaching out to traditionally marginalized audiences. It’s not always perfect, but it’s doing pretty damn well.

There are legitimate problems that some have with the show, such as canon and continuity issues. But using these criteria to weaponize an argument about why the show is bad is incredibly insidious. In some ways, it’s even worse than hearing, “Star Trek: Discovery is bad because it has a black woman as the lead.” That we can all ignore (as frustrating as it is) as racist and sexist. But the thought that something as important as continuity within this universe should bother you but doesn’t? That will get into your head, especially if you’re new to the franchise and don’t have the extensive background that others do. That will make you start wondering if you are, in fact, not a “real” Star Trek fan.

The fact is, we all interact with the things we love differently. I really enjoy reveling in things I love. I can forgive a lot (but not everything). Others express their interest in something by tearing it apart. They nitpick every last detail of what they love. We all participate in fandom in our own ways. I’d like the show to respect what’s come before, and I think Discovery does a great job of that. But I also recognize it needs to have room to tell its own stories. Others may not. Live and let live.

The problem arises when one person (or a group of people in this case) imposes their own standards for how they interact with Star Trek on everyone else. I fully believe that some people have trouble engaging with the show because various issues. You know what that means? That this show isn’t for them. But rather than accepting that, these gatekeepers decide that their opinions are fact. And then they try and impose their will and judgment on others.

This also brings in a level of fan entitlement that is pretty gross, when you think about it. It’s never fun when something you love disappoints you. But rather than giving it a fair chance, and then shaking it off and moving on if it continues not to work, these people proceed to harass anyone who does enjoy it. We don’t always get what we want out of our entertainment; I’d argue that it’s actually a good thing when the things we love challenge us.

Gatekeeping is lazy, small-minded, and quite frankly, it’s dumb. The idea that people are taking a franchise known for its commitment to inclusivity — Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations, after all — and proclaiming that its diverse fanbase aren’t “real” fans is incredibly toxic. No fan owns Star Trek. Many of us who have watched every incarnation of the show feel a sense of ownership over it, but it’s not ours. It belongs to everyone. And as long as all of the gatekeepers are out there harassing people who enjoy Star Trek: Discovery, I’ll be here, reminding everyone that there is no such thing as a “real” fan.
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Re: Discovery: Star Trek Returns to Television???

Post by Scrattch » 12/04/17

The problem arises when one person (or a group of people in this case) imposes their own standards for how they interact with Star Trek on everyone else.
But rather than accepting that, these gatekeepers decide that their opinions are fact. And then they try and impose their will and judgment on others.
Gatekeeping is lazy, small-minded, and quite frankly, it’s dumb. The idea that people are taking a franchise known for its commitment to inclusivity — Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations, after all — and proclaiming that its diverse fanbase aren’t “real” fans is incredibly toxic.
Uhhhhhh huh.

Pot, meet kettle. This article reeks of STSJW indignation and sets up a self defeating straw man argument. This person is literally arguing against being a 'gate keeper' while BEING a 'gate keeper'.

Had it been written without the "we all have to stand together, but I'm more pure than YOU are, so my viewpoint is right despite the fact that I quote IDIC".... then the point(s) would have validity.

As it is, this is just the other side of the anti-STDiscovery people (fanbois) defending their viewpoint just as vociferously as the others do- all while trying to take the "I'm above this fray, personally, BUT here's how *I* think everyone should act" and until people pull that "log from their eye and ignore the splinter in their neighbor's eye"....

Well, just see the TOS episode "Let That Be Your Last Battlefield".

They covered it nicely.

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Re: Discovery: Star Trek Returns to Television???

Post by Psia » 12/20/17

phpBB [media]
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Re: Discovery: Star Trek Returns to Television???

Post by Scrattch » 12/20/17

It does have a good soundtrack, I'll give it that.

And... I'll admit that I do want to know WTF they ended up.

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Re: Discovery: Star Trek Returns to Television???

Post by Tregarde » 01/05/18

The good news - CBS has announced that All Access is joining Amazon’s Channels initiative, which will make it easier for many to watch Discovery (and other shows).

The bad news - it still costs $10 a month for ad-free viewing. A $6 plan with ads will be coming soon.

https://io9.gizmodo.com/thanks-to-amazo ... 1821812900

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Re: Discovery: Star Trek Returns to Television???

Post by Slipps » 01/07/18

That $10 is on top of the $99 Prime cost.

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Re: Discovery: Star Trek Returns to Television???

Post by Tregarde » 01/08/18

Yep. Mirror Universe. And it looks like they'll be stuck there for a while.

And other stuff happened.

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Re: Discovery: Star Trek Returns to Television???

Post by Psia » 01/09/18

Tregarde wrote:
01/08/18
And other stuff happened.
I read spoilers and was taken aback by it. I will need to see it at some point for context.

Depending upon just how far into the MU they take us, I got a suspicion that Michelle Yeoh will be our Empress. Which I actually wouldn't object to.
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Re: Discovery: Star Trek Returns to Television???

Post by Tregarde » 01/22/18

Discovery should would be a lot more interesting, if just about every major plot 'twist' wasn't guessed ahead of the reveal.

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Re: Discovery: Star Trek Returns to Television???

Post by Scrattch » 01/24/18

Ain't that the truth, Tregarde.

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Re: Discovery: Star Trek Returns to Television???

Post by Psia » 02/01/18

I was given a pass for a free month of the all-access network. Since I know that there only a few episodes left for season one, I may subscribe for that free month. Then cancel. I will see how this show plays out beyond what I've read.
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Re: Discovery: Star Trek Returns to Television???

Post by Tregarde » 02/01/18

The show has it's ups and downs. When it's good, it can be surprising good. When it's bad, oh boy can it stink! I think, overall, it's better now than when it started. But hard to say if I'll feel compelled to watch the second season yet. Much will depend on how the final episodes play out.

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