Discovery: Star Trek Returns to Television???

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Re: Discovery: Star Trek Returns to Television???

Post by Scrattch » 10/03/17

Agreed. The episode was miles better than the first two, but still was really disjointed.

I mean, just WTF kind of ship IS Discovery, anyway? Is this the beginnings of... oh hell, what was it... Section 32? 23? Too lazy to look it up at the moment. You know, the ultra secret badboy operatives of Starfleet that Bashir was part of. That's the only thing I can figure. Otherwise it was mostly... uh... WTF?

I liked Tilly, even though it smacks of trying to recreate the Spock/McCoy dynamic.

And at the end of it all, I STILL have no idea where they're going with this, nor if I'm going to stick with it. Wife has already given it a pass.

Meanwhile, on Star Trek: Orville, things just keep getting better.

Liam Neeson, Patrick Stewart, Frakes directing the next episode... seems as though CBS has a mutiny underway.

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Re: Discovery: Star Trek Returns to Television???

Post by Psia » 10/04/17

Starfleet Intelligence, Section 31.

Which, according to the Enterprise prequel series, existed within Starfleet at that time. Prior to the founding of the Federation. While I haven't seen any of these Discovery episodes, you're suggesting something which indicates Discovery may be commanded by a Section 31 operative? Or that Discovery itself is a Section 31 starship? I suppose either or both are possible. Given that in the Kelvin Timeline, Section 31 did manage to infiltrate the ranks enough to construct the Vengeance-class dreadnaught.

I kinda dread that this thread may be woven through the new series to such a degree. Section 31 was the worst concept introduced via the Deep Space Nine series. And retroactively included into pretty much everything since.
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Re: Discovery: Star Trek Returns to Television???

Post by Tregarde » 10/04/17

It's too early to tell exactly where Discovery is going. But judging from episode 3 it does seem likely that a central conflict of the show shall be about science during a time of war. It's clear some people are not happy having their work being used for military applications. On the other hand, there are those who feel that anything to end the war faster is necessary. It also seems likely that Section 31 is involved.

Since the Discovery was designed to be a science vessel, I'm theorizing that the reason for the separated rings in the saucer area is to better contain/quarantine any incidents should something happen.

I really do recommend downloading the episodes and catching up, Psia.

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Re: Discovery: Star Trek Returns to Television???

Post by Scrattch » 10/06/17

That's the most logical explanation of the ring segments I've heard yet. Containment does make sense.
I'm rather under the impression right now that the whole of Discovery is Section 31.

Tribble boy seems to have no problem getting to his objective any way he can at this point.

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Re: Discovery: Star Trek Returns to Television???

Post by Psia » 10/11/17

Bizarre.

I've now rewatched The Vulcan Hello. And followed with Battle at the Binary Stars. Then the opening teaser for episode 3. The show is stylistically attractive. If, IMO, canonically off kilter in that same style. The acting could be better. The story, thus far, is downright weird to me. Of all the new characters, Saru is the only one who stands out to me.

Spoiler tags are not functional for now. So I will have to keep some detailed thoughts to myself.
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Re: Discovery: Star Trek Returns to Television???

Post by Tregarde » 10/12/17

Keep catching up. Episode 4 was a little better. It's not quite there yet, but it felt a little more Star Treky. Far less contrivances than before... but wow, what it lacks in quantity it makes up for in one pure "WTF that makes NO SENSE!" Also, we find out what the saucer ring is for and... that was not what I was expecting.

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Re: Discovery: Star Trek Returns to Television???

Post by Scrattch » 10/12/17

Ditto on your thoughts, Tregarde, but I'm still getting NO "Trek" feel to the show at all.

The ring's purpose is... interesting. Note I didn't say 'practical'.

Still got left with a WTF? Where is this going? Do they KNOW where this is going? Feeling after E4. I'm giving it one or two more episodes before I hang up the towel on STD.

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Re: Discovery: Star Trek Returns to Television???

Post by Psia » 10/18/17

I'm intrigued by the sudden revelation by viewers that Discovery is rated TV-MA. M as in Mature. A character used the word fucking in her dialogue and some folks became unhappy. Just wait for the sex scene that is coming up. My money is on gay sex.
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Re: Discovery: Star Trek Returns to Television???

Post by Tregarde » 10/18/17

It's true, people do swear a little. Not much, but it can feel a little out of place when it comes from a Starfleet officers.

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Re: Discovery: Star Trek Returns to Television???

Post by Scrattch » 10/19/17

Yes, Star Trek officers (officially) dropped the F bomb. Twice in succession, in fact.

I admit that my mouth hung open for several moments.
It felt organic to the moment and character(s), however.

This week they also gave us a very nice take on Harry Mudd.
That part was well done and I hope the actor returns in the role.

Possibly a new member of the crew as well out of the episode?

I will also admit that the show is... starting... to grow on me. A little.

But it still doesn't FEEL like... Trek.

Very conflicted.

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Re: Discovery: Star Trek Returns to Television???

Post by Psia » 10/19/17

Scrattch
10/19/17
Possibly a new member of the crew as well out of the episode?
There is a theory floating around at that. Which might be the first connection to the canon that actually hooks me.
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Re: Discovery: Star Trek Returns to Television???

Post by Slipps » 10/19/17

Why does this not feel Trek?
Is is because there is actual science involved? Or the darkness of the vision? Is it the quality of the sets? Perhaps the scattered gleanings of the characters? Or the lack of sly insertion of social issues today?

Orville feels more Trek than the Trek show, but I still like this, and am actually liking it better as it goes on. Trek or not, I am accepting this show as it is. I will forgive it the slowness of character broadening as they plan on having this last more than one season, and so feel they can let the story hook us first.

This last episode was such a break through of insights into the crew, a scattering of seeds that we truly hope will grow.

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Re: Discovery: Star Trek Returns to Television???

Post by Tregarde » 10/19/17

I think what's at issue with Discovery is that, so far, it's a decent science fiction show... but it's not a decent Star Trek (yet).

Yeah, I get that a war is going on, and some people are going to be more ruthless than others, but there sure has been a lot of Starfeet personnel not acting much like how Starfleet should be acting.

I mean... okay, sure, I get why Lorca did what he did in his last command... but how the fuck is he still in Starfleet after that? And they gave him another command???

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Re: Discovery: Star Trek Returns to Television???

Post by Scrattch » 10/20/17

I think you nailed it, Tregarde. It's decent sci fi, it's just not... Trek... yet. It's hard to quantify.

As far as Lorca goes... we are after the creation of the Prime Directive, are we not? That was one of the founding principles of the Federation (if not always Starfleet) but I'm pretty certain it was in place at this point? If memory serves, didn't Archer put it into play as General Order One?

Either way, it's obvious that to Starfleet, (or at least certain sections of it) right now... the ends justify the means.

BUT... If we're NOT after the creation of the Prime Directive... then I'm wondering... if that's where the character arc with Michael is going. The 'insider/outsider' perspective that can help Starfleet realize how far astray they've gotten from Cochrane and Archer's ideas? Does she help form the PD? Help refine it? Huh.

We need Psia to weigh in. Where are we on the PD timeline here?

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Re: Discovery: Star Trek Returns to Television???

Post by Tregarde » 10/20/17

Discovery takes place about ten years before the original series. So yes, the Prime Directive is very much in place. Remember how in the first minutes of the premier how they were talking about how to avoid interfering with the natives on the planet while wandering the desert?

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Re: Discovery: Star Trek Returns to Television???

Post by Scrattch » 10/20/17

Oh, that's right. Well, PD infancy, then.

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Re: Discovery: Star Trek Returns to Television???

Post by Tregarde » 10/24/17

Really, Discovery, do you HAVE to make Vulcans look like such colossal dicks?

Anyway, there's my review of episode 6. Otherwise, not a bad episode, but still not very Star Trek.

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Re: Discovery: Star Trek Returns to Television???

Post by Psia » 10/25/17

I haven't seen this one yet.

Vulcans, as seen during Enterprise, were colossal dicks. With the logical philosophy of Surak only entering their broader culture by end of that series. So, roughly, a hundred years of Vulcan cultural growth as a result. Working in the role of the Vulcan Masters, the attainment of Kolinahr, etc. Though even in later Trek, the Vulcans could still be snobs when they wanted to be. Spock was always our exception.

Regarding General Order #1, it was adopted by Starfleet upon founding of the Federation. 2161. One of the few things Starfleet borrowed (Including the Minshara aka Class-M planetary classification) from the overbearing, colossal dicks. The Vulcans. ;) Discovery is set 95 years after that rule was formalized.
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Re: Discovery: Star Trek Returns to Television???

Post by Psia » 10/26/17

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Re: Discovery: Star Trek Returns to Television???

Post by Tregarde » 10/31/17

Episode 7... actually... felt like a Star Trek episode.

And I've concluded that Lt. Stamets is my favorite character. I've felt that way for a while, this episode just solidified it. The show needs more of him.

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Re: Discovery: Star Trek Returns to Television???

Post by Psia » 11/08/17

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Re: Discovery: Star Trek Returns to Television???

Post by Scrattch » 11/08/17

The show has definitely gotten better with the past two episodes.
Harry Mudd is definitely my fav new character. Make a show around him.

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Re: Discovery: Star Trek Returns to Television???

Post by Slipps » 11/09/17

Estella is seriously scary!

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Re: Discovery: Star Trek Returns to Television???

Post by Scrattch » 11/09/17

I *loved* the way they updated Stella and still gave her that same garish outfit and voice from TOS.

The show seems to be slowly finding its feet.

I especially liked seeing the Pahvans in the last episode. They are showing us some of those "strange, new worlds" we want. Now to see if they keep it up.

The... sigh... Klingon matter has at least gained one interesting new character. Hope she survives the consequences of her choices... knowing what we do of this character, it would not surprise me that she saw it coming. (trying to be circumspect/spoiler free)

Now what I find interesting is the idea floating around that STD is actually occurring in the Mirror Universe. That would explain a few things.

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Re: Discovery: Star Trek Returns to Television???

Post by Psia » 11/09/17

Scrattch
11/09/17
Now what I find interesting is the idea floating around that STD is actually occurring in the Mirror Universe. That would explain a few things.
It might explains some things. It would create even more canon discontinuity as well.
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"Let me tell you something. Don't. Don't let them promote you. Don't let them transfer you, don't let them do anything that takes you off the bridge of that ship, because while you're there, you can make a difference." - Kirk to Picard, Star Trek Generations

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